Curse

glountz · Nov 24, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Shaqira you're right and clear.
I may add that I highly respect runners because you have to be really skilled to run successfully from, say, Beacon's PErch to Drok.
I am against being run for all the reasons said above.
Those who want to be run are mainly twinkers (I think but I have no statistics for it), for quests or arenas (faction farm) for me it's the same. I never saw a guy wanting to be run "for fun".
Worst, run people are skilless players. Especially run casters I may say, who were able to take by themselves with their big drok armor monsters on their own, and don't understand when their are in South Shiverpeaks or after why they can't tank all those monsters and why they should stay behind the warriors.

Suuk · Nov 24, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Although I find it difficult to estimate how bad it is to positively influence others (drogs armor, end-game skills in low lvl missions), I agree with the conclusion.

Close this thread now?

Before it evolves into a discussion about whether or not runned players are better/worse than playing-mission players?

Death by Ooga Booga · Nov 24, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

My thoughts,
I think Anet should have made armor with a char. level requirement. Only be able to equip lets say, Ascalon armor if you are at least level 5 or so and Forge/15k armor if you are level 20. That would cut back alot of running. Makes sence to me.

Osirod · Nov 24, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaquira

So what ARE the reasons for being run?
2. Getting droks armor and elite skills to breeze through the missions and quests in easy mode.
This could influence the enjoyment of others in a negative way because the mission will be alot easier on the team. I think the person doing this should at least inform the team and let them decide if they will take him or not. If you do it with henchman you wil not interfere with the enjoyment of others and therefore i see no objection.

Shaquira

Might as well go with half the players in the party. Full parties are making it easier.

"Group LF 1 more"
Guy 1: "Me, I've got droks armor!"
Guy 2: "Me, I only have pre-searing armor/skills"
Leader: *Invites #2* "Yeah, we want the useless one. Otherwise it would be too easy, Eh!

If people's looking for difficulty, go grab henchies or a truly stupid PUG. Don't blame it on runners, seriously.

Pyrea · Nov 24, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

As long as people play GW, there will always be this debate for/against runners.

At the end of the day I don't see how runners affect those that are against running. I used to run a lot. Now I only run if either a friend asks me or if I get a pm from my customer base.

Each of us plays this game how he/she see fit and I think it's a little odd how some people seem to think that they have the right to tell people how to play.

It would be like me going up to somebody on the street and saying to them

"Hey there, why are you getting into that cab, you should really walk to your destination, that's what I do, so you must do the same"

hence:

"Oh sorry you must play the way I play and if you don't you ruin the game for me"???

Personally having finished the game many many times, having deleted chars, created new ones, finished game again and again I like to go through the game in different ways now.

For example:

The last char I created was a R/Me. I spent my time in pre (up to L9) then came into post. Got myself to Yaks and then got ran from there to Droks where I bought some better armour and then went back to Ascalon/Northern Shiverpeaks to complete all quests, missions etc For every character my strategy involves: go into area, kill all monsters, do all quests, open up map fully, then move onto next area. Sometimes I put all missions on my map but don't do them until much later (or when I feel like it) When I reached around L15 with this ranger, I decided to map Snake Dance, Dreadnoughts and Lornars which takes a while. (I always leave that till later, but decided to do it earlier)

So in essence have fun with the game, experiment, try different things, but leave all this pointless "You should play the way I play" where it belongs ... in the garbage.

My bit said.

Pyrea

Medion · Nov 24, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I think that people who play the game the first time:

go play the whole game and not partially

I think people who already have finished the game, should play through the big parts at least.
If you don't want to do a mission like Frost Gate, ok, get a run to beacons. But dont go from beacons to Droknars.
If your first character was a monk, and you finished the game easily and you are very good. That doesn't mean you will be very good with a ranger/warrior/necro/ele/mesmer.

Pyrea · Nov 24, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

I think that people who play the game the first time:

go play the whole game and not partially

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

If you are playing for the first time, then the wise thing to do is to play the whole game out from start to finish as:

1. You learn how to play your char
2. Gain knowledge on the GW World
3. Get approx 75% of skills from completing quests
4. Find out lots of other cool things (list is endless)

But again this is just my opinion, not a law that must be obeyed!

One thing that I would love to see in GW is a GW Marathon where "running teams" start at Ascalon and have to get to say Droks or Denravi. Just a thought

FyrFytr998 · Nov 24, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

To all the complainers about ANET not nerfing running. You can stop now. ANET is making Lornar's Pass harder and harder with each update. Now only really skilled runners can do it consistently. Most runners spamming beacons are scammers. So don't think runners got it easy still.

Swehurn · Nov 24, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandanslesdents

My only concern with runners is that they make atrocious amount of money in not a lot of time.

Running people for money IS A METHOD OF FARMING

Agreed.

Although I understand the reasons for having a character run for armor (when you're on a third or fourth char, who really wants to play through the whole game again to get good armor?), the Beacon's --> Drok run is essentially the same as farming.

Sure, there's no killing for drops, but when you consider...

1) It involves somebody (the runner) essentially going solo through an end-game area and
2) It allows somebody (the runner) to generate an inordinate amount of gold in a very short time.

IMO, It sounds eerily similar to the reasons why ANet has said they're against solo farmers in end-game areas.

Looking at the comments from ANet, Mike O'Brien stated:

Quote:

...players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges.

Taken from a Fansite Friday interview:

http://www.guildwars.com/community/f...-friday61.html

Taking a party of 5 on a half-hour Drok run at 3k each generates a potential 30k per hour for the runner...and I can't think of any parallels to that kind of earning potential other than a few lucky UW solo farming runs.

Gaile Gray has stated:

Quote:

But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player.

Taken from these very boards:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=401

Sure, you could argue that runners aren't "playing" the highest-end content - they're just running through it - but that's really splitting hairs.

Now, before the flames start...

I'm not complaining about anything or anybody, just stating my thoughts. Yes, it takes skill to be a good runner (or a thread about a good build and some practice), but the same applies to solo farming.

I personally have nothing against runners - I've used their services myself on alt chars when I didn't feel like playing through the entire game just to get Drok armor. These alt chars typically went on to play through most of the game with henchies, just to get it done and on to the end-game content.

I also have nothing against farmers - I think everybody's done some farming in GW.

Before somebody feels the need to tell me that ANet has said they have nothing against runners but something against solo farmers, I've already heard that point. I just don't understand the distinction between the two.

Maybe if somebody from ANet reads this, they could clarify this for me?

Medion · Nov 24, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Just to put some things right:

Quote:

Taking a party of 7 on a half-hour Drok run at 3k each generates a potential 42k per hour for the runner...and I can't think of any parallels to that kind of earning potential other than a few lucky UW solo farming runs.

-You can't do a Droknars run with more than 5 'clients'.
-In Europe at least, prices are between 1.5K and 2.5K maximum.
-Have you ever stood for 10 minutes in Beacons? making a 6-man group as a runner would take you some time I think.
-Once in a while there are people who don't pay (the full amount).

This isn't to say you are wrong so a 'noob', this is just to show you that you might be looking at it a little too nice for runners.

Quote:

To all the complainers about ANET not nerfing running. You can stop now. ANET is making Lornar's Pass harder and harder with each update. Now only really skilled runners can do it consistently. Most runners spamming beacons are scammers. So don't think runners got it easy still.

I agree, I have tried doing a run with another lvl 20 guildie of mine, and neither of us made it to the first portal.

Blue Steel · Nov 24, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

As the head of the Runners Academy and the elite runners of Guild Wars, may I add my perspective to the ancient debate?

Running provides people a way to maximize the use of your time. Everyone is a winner when it is done right. I have beaten the game start to finish with the four characters on my primary account, doing every single mission and quest. I can get anywhere in the game with henchmen regardless of the profession I am playing. But to take new characters to level 20 and ascended and through the entire game with henchmen or even awful PUGs I will never die (none of it is "hard") but it will take me literally weeks of very frequent play. And it proves nothing just redoing what I have done four times so that I can try the last two primary professions in the Underworld. Why go through that? In one afternoon with a few guildmates I can have a couple of new perfectly equipped, ascended, and level 20 role playing characters of new professions with the elite skills and ready to tackle PvP, UW, SF, and FoW. Doesn't that make sense? It does for me.

Hockster · Nov 24, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Twinkies in Ascalon arena is not a runners fault. Blame that on Anet laziness or unwillingness to fix the glaring problems that have existed since release.

Teufel Eldritch · Nov 24, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

It is my opinion that runners not only contribute to the problem with lowbies in high level places, not only contribute to twinks being in the Asc arena but also contribute to the economic woes with thier huge amounts of personal wealth. Running is the most profitable way to make money in this game. Runners make far more money than farmers do. To them money is no object & as such drive up prices of items.

Hockster · Nov 24, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Oh brother. That is so completely stupid, it's barely even worth a reply.

Go look through the sell forum, especially months old threads. The people that paid the rediculously high prices were the farmers that exploited UW during the 5 ecto every run period. The average prices on everyday perfect items hasn't gone up much at all. The whole "runners drive up the prices" is as misinformed as it was when the popular theory was "farmers drive up the prices".

Not to mention that the typical runner does not make scads of cash. Tell me how many of the runners in Augury are running for tips or 300 per destination are making millions?

Age · Nov 24, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

It is not the runners fualt it is the person who got ran there and they should know better to fight in the Ascalon Arena with Forge Armor on if not they are wimps and have no skill as to play in the arena.When they get past 15 thet better start learning or they will always get owned and they maybe the ones that leave in the LA comp arenas.It is also the Guild leader responsiblty if this person is in guild.

Xenrath · Nov 24, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Running isn't actually that great a way of making money compared to regular farming. Let's say you make 15k (5x3k) for a droknar run, the time it takes to get a full group and do the run itself you can farm more gold in that time (assuming you know how and where, usual places). Desert runs are even less profitable to get a full group and do the runs, I timed those and it's just not worth it if you're after gold.

Single biggest reason (for me anyway and probably quite a lot of people) to get run to places - already played through most of the game at least once and it gets repetitive doing things all over again.

Mosch · Nov 24, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch

It is my opinion that runners not only contribute to the problem with lowbies in high level places, not only contribute to twinks being in the Asc arena but also contribute to the economic woes with thier huge amounts of personal wealth. Running is the most profitable way to make money in this game. Runners make far more money than farmers do. To them money is no object & as such drive up prices of items.

Ahem. Then please tell me why I can't even pay for Droknar armour?

Dentenko · Nov 24, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaquira

Conclusion

If it doesn't hurt other players you should be allowed to do whatever you like in this game. Just as IRL

The moment you influence the enjoyment of other players (positive AND negative) common sense should decide if it is allowable or not.

Shaquira

Agreed also. Thats my viewpoint on running. Though its a good way to earn money and assist some noobs, if it has too negative of an impact, it should be ruled allowable or not. My character I remember being ran to Grendich Courthhouse, but for free. Also, in certain cases, the only good runner is a free runner, cause the prices offered to some people are ridiculous. Cmon people, the noobs are people, they have SOME common sense too...really...

twicky_kid · Nov 25, 2005, 12:16 AM // 00:16

running is a double edged sword.

for people that have never been through game it makes it harder to find people that want to fight to the next town. you must then go to the henches instead of a pug. that will make for a rather boring pve experience.

on the other hand other people that have gone through the game before don't have to take the mass amounts of time to fight through the game to get their next character to the good parts.

i'm on my 7th pve character. my first character was a monk and it took me a week to get through the game the first time. monk is probly the fastest with pugs and henches so i could imagine other classes. took about 2 weeks with my warrior.

you get through the content you have been through time and time again very fast, but other's that have never been there have to mostly rely on henches if they want to fight. some do run through the game and have never played through it. that makes for horrible pugs later on in the game when henches are not an option.

for the most part it doesn't hurt the game. still the fastest way to make money and alot of competition are driving down the price of runs.

unamed player · Nov 25, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

You cant blame the runner for doing something that is totally legit. As for the twinks, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. There is nothing you can do to stop them from being the way they are. If you close Lornars Pass, they will just run to the desert and use desert armor instead. Does a 40-50 armor difference total really change anything? The guy is a twink either way to prey on new guys with a (not really huge) advantage. As for lowbies in high level areas..umm who the hell cares. I wont invite anyone under 20 in any mission past dragons lair. I dont really know anyone would. So, how exactly does this affect anyone at all? Whats the worse that can happen..they spam the channel asking for gold IF they are new players. My friend started this game about 2 weeks ago and i ran him through the entire game just to prepare one of his characters for pvp. He has been in random arenas for over 2 weeks now and i think hes doing great. PVE and PVP are two seperate entities and while you can learn some things in PVE id say its VERY limited. This game isnt rocket science people. A good week or two in randoms and you learn very well how to play this game..at the minor cost of being a total noob at the beginning and your team cursing you for being clueless. Who cares its random arenas. If anything you should blame Anet for not making an arena that only someone with a newly started account can get into. For example if your account is under 20 hours you have the right to participate in "so and so" arena. That would keep the pros out and the twinks who usually played the game once through most likely wont be able to get in.